Message Forum

Welcome to the Richardson High School Message Forum.

The Message Forum is an ongoing dialogue among classmates. The goal is to encourage friendly interaction, including interaction among classmates who really didn't know each other. Experience on the site has revealed that certain topics tend to cause friction and hard feelings, especially politics and religion. 

Although politics and religion are not completely off-limits, classmates are asked to be positive in their posts and not to be too repetitive or allow a dialog to degenerate into an argument. 

Forums work when people participate - so don't be bashful! Click the "Post Response" button to add your entry to the forum.


 
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07/07/20 10:40 AM #18428    

 

David Cordell

Help!

 

Need gas cooktop to replace 32" ceramic. Can't find 32" gas cooktop. Cutout in granite is too big for 30" cooktop. Cabinet is too small for 36" cooktop. Any ideas?


07/07/20 05:24 PM #18429    

 

Hollis Carolyn Heyn

Jerry: Don't want to drop any spoilers for those who haven't yet watched all Ozark episodes, so one name only - Darlene.

07/07/20 08:19 PM #18430    

 

Jerry May

Hollis,  Oh yes! I won't spoil it either. 
Speaking of "Darlene".......the girl I had my first crush on was Darlene. It was in the 5th

grade! And she had nothing to do with Jerry.....until we were about to move from "The Cliff."

to Richardson! I just shrugged my shoulders. Oh well!


07/07/20 08:21 PM #18431    

 

David Cordell

Lance,

We found out that it will cost over $2000 just to get gas to the site of the stove. Electricity is looking a lot better.


07/07/20 10:04 PM #18432    

 

David Cordell

Sent to me by a non-posting classmate.

---------------------

This is an e-mail sent to Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune after an article he published concerning a name change for the Washington Redskins.

Dear Mr. Page: I agree with our Native American population. I am highly jilted by the racially charged name of the Washington Redskins. One might argue that to name a professional football team after Native Americans would exalt them as fine warriors, but nay, nay. We must be careful not to offend, and in the spirit of political correctness and courtesy, we must move forward.

Let's ditch the Kansas City Chiefs, the Atlanta Braves and the Cleveland Indians. If your shorts are in a wad because of the reference the name Redskins makes to skin color, then we need to get rid of the Cleveland Browns.

The Carolina Panthers obviously were named to keep the memory of militant Blacks from the 60's alive. Gone. It's offensive to us white folk.

The New York Yankees offend the Southern population. Do you see a team named for the Confederacy? No! There is no room for any reference to that tragic war that cost this country so many young men's lives. I am also offended by the blatant references to the Catholic religion among our sports team names. Totally inappropriate to have the New Orleans Saints, the Los Angeles Angels or the San Diego Padres.

Then there are the team names that glorify criminals who raped and pillaged. We are talking about the horrible Oakland Raiders, the Minnesota Vikings, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Pittsburgh Pirates!

Now, let us address those teams that clearly send the wrong message to our children. The San Diego Chargers promote irresponsible fighting or even spending habits. Wrong message to our children.

The New York Giants and the San Francisco Giants promote obesity, a growing childhood epidemic. Wrong message to our children. The Cincinnati Reds promote downers/barbiturates. Wrong message to our children.

The Milwaukee Brewers. Well that goes without saying. Wrong message to our children.

So, there you go. We need to support any legislation that comes out to rectify this travesty, because the government will likely become involved with this issue, as they should. Just the kind of thing the do-nothing Congress loves.

As a die-hard Oregon State fan, my wife and I, with all of this in mind, suggest it might also make some sense to change the name of the Oregon State women's athletic teams to something other than "the Beavers (especially when they play Southern California. Do we really want the Trojans sticking it to the Beavers?

I always love your articles and I generally agree with them. As for the Redskins name I would suggest they change the name to the “Foreskins" to better represent their community, paying tribute to each and every last dick-head in Washington D.C.


07/07/20 10:17 PM #18433    

 

David Cordell

Lance,

I'm waiting for a Green New Deal solar cooktop with instantaneous response time similar to that evil fossil fuel, natural gas.


07/07/20 11:46 PM #18434    

 

Lowell Tuttle

I had gas from 84 to 2011.   Loved it.  My contractor talked me into electric.  Hate it.  One burner out.   Looking to gas.  We have both hookups.  Double check to see if gas is already there.   Consumers says invection best.   Hey, you might ask Randy Combs.  Handy man expert.


07/08/20 07:34 AM #18435    

 

Steve Keene

David,

Hell, I would just move to avoid the aggravation.


07/08/20 11:44 AM #18436    

 

David Cordell

Lowell,

We have had electric stoves in all six homes we have owned. The only time we had gas was in a duplex that we rented in Austin in 1974-76. Martha would prefer gas, but it isn't that big of a deal to her, by which I mean that it isn't worth $3,500+ after installation of the line (no, it isn't there, dammit), repair of the wall, replacement of the gas meter, and purchase of the cooktop. My interaction with the cooktop is minimal. Mainly, I get close to it when I warmmy coffee mug in the non-gas microwave.

Steve,

Next time I move will be into the columbarium at my church.


07/08/20 02:43 PM #18437    

 

Bob Davidson

Hollis,

I hope you didn’t think I was ignoring your question: yes, I was referring to Barak Obama.  In my opinion, his editorship of the Harvard Law Review was as undeserved as his Nobel Peace Prize.  Being elected editor of any law review makes a law student one of the top students in the class.  Harvard Law Review is the most prestigious one in the country so its top editor is the top law student of the year.  Federal appellate judges choose their clerks from the ranks of the top law school law review editors; this it the route to being a law professor or a federal judge so it is fiercely competitive.  Each law review has a number of editors, with one top editor.  They are generally elected by the past year’s editors with faculty input.  Obama was elected despite not having written anything that was published by the review – something unheard of.  

Incidentally, there was a thought around law schools that one’s earnings as a lawyer are in inverse proportion to one’s law school grades.  I attributed it to resentment of rich ambulance chasers on the part of judges and professors.

I hesitate to comment on any politician because people love to project virtues into the ones they support and vices into those they oppose so there's no point in discussing it.  I see Obama as Chance the gardner.  My son, who was in college in Iowa in 2008, had several small group meetings with him during the primaries and spoke personally to him: he found him charismatic, articulate, and charming.  I’ve never met the man. 


07/08/20 03:40 PM #18438    

 

Janalu Jeanes (Parchman)

I suppose that it would be ill-advised to "somehow" provide weapons to the citizens of Hong Kong to allow them the ability to fight back against the Communists who are forcing them into becoming part of the Chinese mess called China, but it seems criminal to sit by and watch those poor people be whipped or even slaughtered into submission, as they scream for help to anyone who might give them what they would like.


07/08/20 03:55 PM #18439    

 

Janalu Jeanes (Parchman)

Bob,

Did you see what Charles Krauthammer had to say about his first assessment of Barack Obama, and then later, after observing Obama's first year, his new assessment?  

His first assessment was just like yours, but he soon learned of the true philosophy of the man, which he was clever to keep hidden from many at his first introductions.

I too, thought his receiving the Nobel Peace Prize before having done anything at all, was totally ludicrous.


07/08/20 04:25 PM #18440    

 

David Cordell

Bob,

About law school rankings, I think my mother repeated this quotation about Harvard Law graduates to me when I was in high school. "The students who get A's go on to be law school professors. The students who get B's go on to be judges. The students who get C's go on to be millionaires."

 

Lance, thanks for the excellent summary!


07/08/20 06:55 PM #18441    

 

Bob Davidson

David,

I can think of two contra-examples:

I used to work with a lawyer who was in John O’Quinn’s class at U of H Law School.  O’Quinn was worth many hundreds of millions of dollars.  He won the Agent Orange, the fen-fen, and a number of breast implant cases, among many, many other top dollar tort suits.  O’Quinn was either first or second in the class, depending on who is talking.  His rival was Alvin Zimmerman, a former Harris County family district judge who is generally credited with inventing modern family mediation.  Zimmerman is still alive and semi-retired.  He lives a comfortable middle-class life.  My friend was still pals with both of them and editor in chief of the law review.  His main assistant editors were O’Quinn and Raul Gonzales, who was a justice on the Texas Supreme Court.  My friend became a Social Security administrative judge at the end of his career.

Steve Susman was a UT law professor who had been editor of his law review and first in his law school class.  On the side from his teaching job, he won the corregated box antitrust case.  It was the largest verdict in an antitrust case at the time, and maybe forever.  He had it on contingency and earned over a hundred million in fees.  He quit teaching, moved to Houston, started the Sussman Godfrey lawfirm doing high-dollar tort litigation, became a big player in Democratic politics, built a spectacular mansion in Memorial, lost his very nice wife (a good family law lawyer I liked – and a member of Alvin Zimmerman’s firm) to a plastic surgery complication, and is currently in a coma from a bicycle accident.

On the other hand, Racehorse Haynes and Joe Jamail both claimed to have barely made it through law school.  Jamail was called “the King of Torts” (he won the Texaco - Penzoil lawsuit and literally made billions from that case); he claimed to have failed torts in law school and to have graduated by the skin of his teeth.  Racehorse (who was by far the top criminal defense lawyer in the state when I was a baby lawyer) claimed to have flunked criminal law.  I never knew whether to believe them: it seemed like the sort of good ole boy reverse bragging that a number of the most successful trial lawyers around here love to do.  The kind of guys who talk in a drawl about fishin’ and huntin’, wear boots and old, slightly worn suits, call themselves old country lawyers, but live in River Oaks and have a 55 foot yacht in Keemah.  It’s the direct opposite of what we Houstonian lawyers mean when we refer to someone as a “Dallas lawyer.”

One of my best friends has parents who went to high school with Racehorse and Dan Rather; his mom is dead, but his dad is still alive.  So did the the Scoutmaster Emeritus of Troop 30 and his wife.  They  remember Rather as the school bully and Racehorse as the little skinny guy who beat him up and became the school hero.  They all went to the former Reagan HS in the Houston Heights.  It's now Heights High, since John Reagan was in the Confederate Army.

Janalou,

I am a huge admirer of Charles Krauthammer.  He made me think even when I disagreed with him.   I do believe that Obama was uniquely successful at changing our country (in my opinion for the worse) but I figured that he was someone else's catspaw, rather than an evil manipulator

 

 


07/08/20 08:30 PM #18442    

 

David Cordell

Bob,

You mentioned the name change for Reagan High School. My wife Martha and I owned a home down the street from Austin's Reagan High School, which was the school that won the state football championship over the great Abilene Cooper team that had beaten the RHS Eagles so badly in the Cotton Bowl in December 1967. Not sure if they have renamed the school, and don't really want to know.

John H. Reagan was a U.S. Congressman before the Civil War and then became Postmaster General of the Confederate States of America. After the Civil War He became a U.S. Congressman again, and then became a U.S. Senator.

But before all of that, Reagan had a significant interaction with Martha's three-great grandfather -- Martin Lacy -- and Cherokee Chief Bowles.

The following is over-long for this forum, but here it is anyway. It is from THE QUARTERLY OF THE TEXAS STATE HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION, July 1897.

 

THE EXPULSION OF THE CHEROKEES FROM EAST TEXAS.

JOHN H. REAGAN

 

In the first half of the year 1839 the Cherokee Indians occupied that part of Texas which is bounded on the east by the Angelina river, on the west by the Neches river, on the south by the old San Antonio road, and on the north by the Sabine river. What is now Cherokee and Smith counties covers substantially the same territory. At that time, the Shawnee Indians occupied what is now Rusk county, their principal village being near where the town of Henderson is now situated. The Delaware Indians then lived in the eastern part of what is now Henderson county.

 

Less than two years before that time, the Kickapoo Indians lived in the north-eastern part of what is now Anderson county; and in a hotly contested battle between them and their Mexican allies and the Texans, they were defeated and driven from that part of the county. The whites charged the Cherokees with stealing their horses and with an occasional murder of white people. This their Chief Bowles denied; and alleged that the thefts and murders were committed by wild Indians, who came through his country. But in 1838 the Cherokees murdered the families of the Killoughs and Wilhouses, several in number, and broke up the settlement of whites in the vicinity of Neches Saline, now the northwest part of Cherokee county. There was no question about these murders being committed by the Cherokees, and that Dog Shoot, one of their head men, led in this massacre. Complaints of thefts and murders by the Cherokees became so numerous, and were so authenticated, as to cause the President of the Republic, General M. B. Lamar, to send a communication to Chief Bowles, through the Indian agent, Martin Lacy, Esq., making certain recitals evidencing hostility to the white people. Among the facts so recited, as I remember them, one was that in the year 1836, when the people of Texas were retreating from their homes before the advancing army of the Mexican general, Santa Anna, that he, Chief Bowles, assembled his warriors on the San Antonio road, east of the Neches, for the purpose of attacking the Texans if they should be defeated by Santa Anna. Another was that, in the preceding January, 1839, General Burleson had captured some Cherokees on the upper Colorado, on their return from the City of Mexico, accompanied by some Mexicans, and bearing a commission to Chief Bowles as a colonel in the Mexican army, and a quantity of powder and lead, and instructions for his co-operation with the Mexican army, which was to invade Texas during the then coming spring. And also calling attention to the murders and thefts which had been committed on the people of Texas by the Cherokees; and upon these statements, saying to Chief Bowles that Texas could not permit such an enemy to live in the heart of the country, and that he must take his tribe to the nation north of Red river.

President Lamar in that communication said to Chief Bowles that he had appointed six among the most respectable citizens of the Republic, and authorized them to value the unmovable property of the Cherokees, which was understood to be their improvements on the land, but not the land, and to pay them for these in money. I knew some of these men at the time as most worthy citizens. One of them was Judge Noble, of Nacogdoches county. The President also said to them that they could take all their movable property with them and go in peace. But that go they must; peaceably if they would, but forcibly if they must.

It is proper for me to say that I have seen, in the State Department, a paper purporting to be a communication from President Lamar to Chief Bowles, supposed to be the one announcing his views as to the necessity of the removal of this tribe. Dr. W. G. W. Jowers and myself, and one Cordra, a half-breed, accompanied Mr. Lacy, the Indian agent, when he took the President's communication to Bowles. Cordra went along as interpreter, as Bowles could not speak English and the agent could not speak the Cherokee language. Dr. Jowers was afterwards a member of the House of Representatives and of the Senate of Texas several terms. The paper then read and interpreted to Chief Bowles contained, in substance, what I have said, and is very different from the paper in the office of the Secretary of State. Indian Agent Lacy lived on the San Antonio road about six miles east of the Neches river. Chief Bowles lived about three miles north of Mr. Lacy.

When we reached the residence of Bowles, he invited us to a spring a few rods from his house, and, seated on a log, received the communication of the President. After it was read and interpreted, he remained silent for a time, and then made a denial of the charges contained in that communication, and said the wild Indians had done the killing and stealing, and not his people.

He then entered into a defense of the title of his tribe to the country which they occupied, as I have described it. He said that after his band separated from the old Cherokee nation, they, under him as their chief, settled at Lost Prairie, north of Red river, now in Arkansas; that after living there for a time, they moved to the Three Forks of the Trinity river, now Dallas and the surrounding counties; that he had intended to hold that country for his tribe, but that the other Indians disputed his right to do so, and claimed it as a common hunting ground; that he remained there with his tribe about three years, in a state of continual war with the other Indians, until about one-third of his warriors had been killed; that he then moved down near the Spanish Fort of Nacogdoches (I use his expression); and that the local authorities permitted him to occupy the country which his tribe then occupied; that he then went to the City of Mexico, and got the authority of the Mexican government to occupy that country, and that during the Revolution of 1835-36 the Consultation representing Texas recognized his right to that country by a treaty.

It is proper here to state that the Consultation did appoint General Houston and Colonel Forbes, and authorized them to make a treaty with the Cherokees. I am not informed as to the extent of the powers conferred on them for that purpose. A treaty was agreed to between them and the Cherokees, and reported to the Consultation, which adjourned without ratifying the treaty so made; and it, with its powers, was superseded by the Convention, which formed the Constitution of the Republic; and that Convention rejected the treaty which had been agreed to by General Houston and Colonel Forbes. That is the treaty to which Chief Bowles referred. So that the Cherokees had no higher title to the country they then occupied than the privilege of occupancy during the pleasure of the sovereign of the soil.

After his statement as to the right of his tribe to that country, Chief Bowles stated to Mr. Lacy that he had been in correspondence with John Ross, the chief of the original tribe of Cherokees,

for a long time, looking to an agreement between them to unite the two tribes and go to California, and take possession of a country out of the reach of the white people. It will be remembered that this was about ten years before the cession of California by Mexico to the United States, and when but little was known of that country by our people. And he offered to produce and have read to Mr. Lacy a bundle of letters on this subject, which he said was as large as his thigh. Mr. Lacy waived the necessity of their production, saying that the statement of Chief Bowles was sufficient on this subject. Chief Bowles then said that he could not make answer to the communication of the President without consulting his chiefs and head men, and requested time to convene his council. Thereupon it was agreed between them to have another meeting a week or ten days later (I do not remember the exact length of time), to give time for the council of the Cherokees to meet and act.

On the day appointed, Agent Lacy returned to the residence of Chief Bowles, accompanied by Cordra, the interpreter, and by Dr. Jowers and myself. We were again invited to the spring, as upon our first visit. The grave deportment of Chief Bowles indicated that he felt the seriousness of his position. He told Mr. Lacy that there had been a meeting of the chiefs and head men in council; that his young men were for war; that all who were in the council were for war, except himself and Big Mush; that his young men believed they could whip the whites; that he knew the whites could ultimately whip them, but that it would cost them ten years of bloody frontier war. He inquired of Mr. Lacy if action on the President's demand could not be postponed until his people could make and gather their crops. Mr. Lacy informed him that he had no authority or discretion beyond what was said in the communication from the President. The language of Chief Bowles indicated that he regarded this as settling the question, and that war must ensue. He said to Mr. Lacy that he was an old man (being then eighty-three years of age, but looking vigorous and strong), and that in the course of nature he could not live much longer, and that as to him it mattered but little. But he added that he felt much solicitude for his wives (he had three) and for his children; that if he fought, the whites would kill him; and if he refused to fight, his own people would kill him. He said he had led his people a long time, and that he felt it to be his duty to stand by them, whatever fate might befall him.

I was strongly impressed by the manly bearing and frankness and candor of the agent and the chief. Neither could read or write, except that Mr. Lacy could mechanically sign his name. And during their two conferences they exhibited a dignity of bearing which could hardly have been exceeded by the most enlightened diplomats. There was no attempt to deceive or mislead made by either of them.

The whites on the one side and the Indians on the other at once commenced preparations for the conflict. Chief Bowles took his position east of the Neches river, in the northwest corner of what is now Cherokee county, concentrating his warriors and collecting his families there. He was joined by the Shawnees, the Delawares, and by warriors from all the wild tribes of Indians, and there were at that time a good many of them. Colonel Rusk, with a regiment of volunteers, was first in the field on the side of the Texans. Vice-President Burnet, then Acting President of the Republic (President Lamar, with the leave of Congress, was temporarily absent from the Republic), General Albert Sidney Johnston, the Secretary of War, and Adjutant-General Hugh McLeod, accompanied this regiment. It went into camp about six miles to the east of Bowles' camp, and for ten days or more negotiations were carried on between the belligerents, Bowles negotiating to gain time to collect the warriors from the wild tribes, and the Texans negotiating to gain time for the arrival of Colonel Burleson's regiment of regulars from the west, and Colonel Landrum's regiment of volunteers from the red lands.

During this time an incident occurred which might have been of a very serious character. A neutral boundary had been agreed on between the belligerents, and the men of neither side were to pass it without notice. Acting President Burnet, the Secretary of War, Adjutant-General McLeod, Colonel Rusk, and a few others, had gone to the camp of the Indians, under a flag of truce, to conduct negotiations, as they had done on previous days. Colonel Jim Carter and a few others, acting as scouts, found John Bowles, a son of the chief, and a few other Indians, who had passed the neutral boundary, and gave chase for them. The Indians escaped, and when they reached their camps reported that they had been run in by the Texans. This caused violent excitement among the Indians, and the gentlemen named reported that it seemed for a time that they were to be attacked by the Indians, in which event their massacre would have been inevitable. But explanations were made, which allayed the excitement. At the subsequent meetings for negotiation, the Texas officials took with them an escort of thirty picked men. An agreement was made that neither party was to break up camp or make any move without giving notice to the other party. On the 13th or 14th of July, Colonel Burleson's regiment of regulars, and Colonel Landrum's regiment of volunteers, reached the camp of the Texas forces. And early on the morning of the 15th Chief Bowles sent his son, John Bowles, accompanied by Fox Fields, under a flag of truce, to notify the Texans that he would break up camp that morning and move to the west of the Neches river. On reaching headquarters under a flag of truce, they delivered their message to General Johnston, and having done so, inquired if they could return in safety. They both spoke English very well. General Johnston told the messenger that his father had acted honorably in giving the notice according to agreement, and that he would see that they had safe conduct out of our camp; and he detailed a number of men, with orders to see them safely a half-mile beyond our line of pickets. He also told them to inform Chief Bowles that the Texas forces would break up camp that morning and pursue him.

On the assembling of this little army of three regiments, the volunteers wanted Colonel Rusk for their commander, while the regulars preferred Colonel Burleson for that position. These two patriots and heroes of the Revolution, which made Texas a Republic, did not desire to antagonize each other, and either of them was willing that the other should command. But it was agreed to solve the question by having General Kelsey H. Douglass elected as brigadier-general and placed in the chief command. And when this army broke up its camp on the morning of the 15th of July, 1839, to pursue the Indians, Colonel Landrum was ordered to move up on the east side of the Neches river, and be in position to intercept the Indians if they should turn northward, as it was expected they would. The regiments of Colonel Rusk and Colonel Burleson moved to the west, passing through the camp which had been occupied by the Indians, and crossing the Neches on their trail.

Chief Bowles had taken position on a creek some six miles west of the Neches with a part of his warriors, and had sent the families with the balance of the warriors to a position about six miles north of where he made this stand. His men occupied the bed of a creek, which, running from north to south, made a sudden bend to the east, and his position was immediately above this bend.

After the Texans crossed the Neches, scouts were thrown forward, with directions if they found the Indians in position to give battle, to keep up a desultory firing at long range, without exposing themselves too much, so as to give notice of the position of the Indians. As the command advanced, and when the firing of the scouts was heard, Colonel Rusk's regiment was ordered to advance on the north side of the creek they were on, and Colonel Burleson's regiment was ordered to cross the creek and advance on the south side of the creek, so as to put the Indians between these regiments. When the troops reached the bend of the creek, which was the extreme right of the line occupied by the Indians, Rusk's regiment wheeled to the right and formed in front of the Indians, while Burleson's regiment turned to the right and passed up into the rear of the Indians.

This was an hour or two before sundown. A battle ensued, which, however, did not last long. Dr. Rogers and Colonel Crain were killed, and some six or eight Texans were wounded; and it was reported that the Indians left eighteen dead on the field, and the remainder of them were routed and joined the others some six miles to the north, near the Neches, and just north of the Delaware village. The Texans camped for the night near the battlefield. And fearing that the Indians might break up into small bands and attack the more exposed frontier settlements, a number of squads were detached from the command and ordered to proceed to the exposed parts of the frontier to defend the families of the whites.

On the morning of the 16th of July, the Texans, thus reduced in number, took up the line of march in pursuit of the Indians, and found them, soon after passing the Delaware village, in a very strong position. They occupied a long ravine, deep enough to protect them, with gently sloping open woods in front of them. Our line of battle was formed on a low ridge in front of them, and skirmishers thrown forward, who were at once engaged with the skirmish line of the Indians. Every sixth man of our command was detailed to hold and guard our hourses. This, with the details sent away the night before, had considerably reduced our fighting force, and we were confronted by the entire force of the Indians, which, from the information we afterwards received, considerably outnumbered the Texans who participated in the battle.

The scene at that time made a very vivid impression on my young mind. The Delaware village, in our immediate rear, was wrapped in flames, and the black columns of smoke were floating over us; the skirmishers were fighting in front of us, and our line of battle advancing to the conflict.

The battle lasted about two hours. We had six men killed and thirty-six wounded. The Indian loss was very much greater. During this engagement, Chief Bowles was a very conspicuous figure. He was mounted on what we call a paint horse, and had on him a sword and sash, and military hat and silk vest, which had been given to him by General Houston. And thus conspicuously mounted and dressed, he rode up and down in the rear of his line, very much exposed during the entire battle. Our officers two or three times ordered the men to advance nearer the line of the Indians, and then would order them to fall back, in the hope that in this way the Indians might be drawn from their strong position. And just as this was done the last time, word ran along our line that the Indians were in our rear getting our horses. This came near producing a panic. Colonel Len Williams and Ben A. Vansickle, who were with us, and who understood and could speak the Cherokee language, told us that at that time they could hear Bowles, who was urging his warriors to charge, and telling them that the whites were whipped if they would charge.

When at last the Indians retreated, Chief Bowles was the last one to attempt to leave the battlefield. His horse had been wounded many times, and he shot through the thigh. His horse was disabled and could go no further, and he dismounted and started to walk off. He was shot in the back by Henry Conner, afterwards Major Connor; walked forward a little and fell, and then rose to a sitting position facing us, and immediately in front of the company to which I belonged. I had witnessed his dignity and manliness in council, his devotion to his tribe in sustaining their decision for war against his judgment, and his courage in battle, and, wishing to save his life, ran towards him, and, as I approached him from one direction, my captain, Robert Smith, approached him from another, with his pistol drawn. As we got to him, I said, "Captain, don't shoot him," but as I spoke he fired, shooting the chief in the head, which caused instant death. It ought to be said for Captain Smith that he had known of the many murders and thefts by the Indians, and possibly did, in the heat of battle, what, under other circumstances, he would not have done, for he was esteemed as a most worthy man and citizen.

The families of the Indians were camped in the Neches bottom, in thick woods. After the battle, our command camped at the edge of the bottom very near the Indians, but made no attack on them. That night we could hear the hum and bustle of their camp the greater part of the night, and the next morning they were gone in the direction of the Grand Saline, in what is now Van Zandt county; and while our troops followed them to the Grand Saline, they did not overtake them.

Colonel Landrum, it was said, was misled by his guide and did not reach the balance of the command until after the battles. The Indians dispersed, some going to the cross timbers, some to the north of Red river, and some to Mexico. A year or more later—I do not remember the precise date—the wives and some of the children of Chief Bowles came to the Rio Grande at Laredo, and asked permission to pass through Texas on the way to the Cherokees north of Red river, and President Lamar granted their request, furnished them an escort, and transportation and rations, on their way through Texas. I saw them on the San Antonio road east of the Neches.

Whatever apology may be necessary for the imperfections of this paper may be found in the fact that it has been very hurriedly prepared, under a constant pressure of very exacting official duties, without time for careful revision.

In order to avoid egotism, I omit the mention of a number of incidents, which might be of interest as personal reminiscences.

 

 


07/09/20 01:05 AM #18443    

 

Steve Keene

Lance

Great list.


07/09/20 10:42 AM #18444    

 

Lowell Tuttle

Jerry May... Gunsmoke camera crew...interview with Muddy about 32:00...




07/09/20 10:54 AM #18445    

 

Lowell Tuttle

I just heard the lyrics that had confused me all my blues listening life...

"The party said, "Another mule's kickin in your stall."

Cool


07/09/20 06:42 PM #18446    

Kurt Fischer

Janalu:

You wrote briefly about the situation in Hong Kong and, like a moth to a flame, here I am writing back.

The overall situation really saddens me.  I have a number of good friends there and I know their lives will be impacted.

It's doubly sad to me because it didn't have to happen, or at least this quickly.  The Hong Kong government had 23 years to write and pass a "national security" law.  They failed miserably amid in-fighting.  But it was their responsibility.   The "protesters" last year could have just been protesters.  But they chose to riot, burn, throw bricks, and turn Hong Kong into a violent zone.  All the time they were rioting, the question was what would mainland China do in response?  The police of Hong Kong chose to allow the individuals to turn from protesting to rioting before they would break up the crowds.  Their tactics were meant to be humane, but left the impression Hong Kong was out of control.

Sometimes we forget Hong Kong is a Chinese land.  It is called a Special Administrative District, but there is no mistake that China owns Hong Kong.  Frankly, the leaders of China got tired of Hong Kong being out of control and took over the situation.  To me it is analagous with what President Trump threatens to do based on local rioting.  Send in the federal government to clean up the problems.

How will this affect Hong Kong  citizens?  For right now, it breaks into two classes.  Those citizens who insist on an independent Hong Kong will be arrested and jailed.  It's gone from the point of freedom of speech to being viewed as sedition by the Chinese government.  Again, by analogy, I was personally infuriated by the folks in Seattle calling themselves an entity divorced from the US.  It is very similar with China and Hong Kong.  If you say you plan to establish an independent state, China will now prosecute you.

The second class of Hong Kong citizen is the ordinary worker not involved in "revolution now".  The new national security law will have a very small impact.  People will be more careful in their conversation and won't be able to buy certain books, but those are very small impacts.  They will continue to work and raise their families in a relatively free environment.  However, there is common agreement that the Chinese noose will slowly tighten over the years until Hong Kong is governed just like mainland China.  There are still 26 or 27 years before the 50 year transition to Chinese ownership is completed, but the imposition of the national security law has hastened the transition considerably and Hong Kong will slowly lose the degree of freedom it now has.  It will be sad to watch.


07/09/20 10:10 PM #18447    

 

Lowell Tuttle

I was in a outpatient clinic a while back and the tech was Chinese.  It was sort of intense because it was electric shocks to stimulate my nerves to try to see what was causing my neuropathy...(it was back stenosis and spurs.)

Anyway, our conversation drifted to the situation in Hong Kong.  I was empathatic to the demonstrators and assumed a Chinese in America would be also.

Boy did I misread that.  She spoke out against the demonstrators and could not understand why I would have any kind of concern for the Chinese one party government being too restrictive or authoritarian.

As I reflected, I guess she was a Chinese national working over here on some kind of green card or work visa.

I wonder if a pol of Chinese living here would give empath support to Mainland/communist China vs the Hong Kong freedom matters.  Chinese living here, Chinese working/schooling here, and Chinese descendents.

 


07/10/20 01:34 PM #18448    

 

Janalu Jeanes (Parchman)

Thanks Kurt, for your terrific assessment of what is happening in Hong Kong.

I agree that it is all so sad to watch, and wish there was some way we could help the Hong Kong people retain the freedom they crave.  I hope they can get their act together to set up their best governing outcome.

Have you watched Michael Pillsbury speak on TV of how he thinks the whole China situation will develop in the next few years?  Or have you read his book titled THE HUNDRED YEAR MARATHON? 

I find him fascinating and very intuitive.  
 


07/10/20 01:41 PM #18449    

 

Janalu Jeanes (Parchman)

Lance,

Charles and I have watched Austin become more and more a mess of hotbed revolutionaries with dismay and sadness over the last thirty years, or so.

It is run by Marxist socialists, mostly, who seek to completely "rearrange" the lovely way of life that was once there.  The mayor is a good friend of Buttigieg, so that explains quite a bit, doesn't it?


07/10/20 07:23 PM #18450    

Kurt Fischer

Lowell:

Your comments about the person coming out of mainland China and her lack of agreement with the Hong Kong protesters is so very interesting and enlightening.

My experience in dealing with individuals in other countries parallels yours.  Where I might expect them to rebel against the authoritative and repressive regimes they are under, I have not found this to be the case.  I have found the key principle in most people's lives is economic well being.  In Hong Kong, people are pretty satisfied with their lives, but any rebellion is based on the extraordinary cost of living and seeing they will not be able to better themselves.  On the other hand, their compatriots in Shenzhen, just up the bay area from HK, are more satisfied at this time.  They have a new, growing city with lots of opportunity for financial advancement.  They are willing to put up with a repressive government if it does not repress their economic well being.  Shenzhen is like the Silicon Valley, but involving 10 times the number of people.  When I met and talked with people in Viet Nam, the story was very similar.  They were chasing an economic dream which is currently supported by their government.  They put up with political repression as long as they can chase their economic dream.

In America we cherish our rights speak our minds about politics.  I find this a far better system than authoritarian systems.  But I am mindful that people living in other systems seem to be satisfied as long as they have the ability to earn a living, raise their families, and see a better future.  This is the promise Xi has given China over the last eight years and it seems to be working as long as the centrally planned economy continues to expand.  It will be interesting to see what happens in the next five years.


07/10/20 08:05 PM #18451    

 

Lowell Tuttle

Kurt, I think you are spot on right there.

Isn't it a wonder how the Chinese political economic has evolved.  On the one hand it's bad.  On the other hand it's worked out well. 

I don't think they think of us as enemies.  I just believe they consider us in the way.


07/11/20 07:39 AM #18452    

 

David Cordell

I just read the transcript of the George Floyd arrest. He started saying, "I can't breathe," before he was even on the ground. I was horrified that Officer Chauvin killed Floyd, but the transcript paints a more nuanced picture.

https://www.twincities.com/2020/07/09/george-floyd-transcript-read-it-in-full-here/


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