The Message Forum is an ongoing dialogue among classmates. The goal is to encourage friendly interaction, including interaction among classmates who really didn't know each other. Experience on the site has revealed that certain topics tend to cause friction and hard feelings, especially politics and religion. 

Although politics and religion are not completely off-limits, classmates are asked to be positive in their posts and not to be too repetitive or allow a dialog to degenerate into an argument. 

Forums work when people participate - so don't be bashful! Click the "Post Response" button to add your entry to the forum.

Lowell Tuttle

Kurt, wasn't the main issue of the riots that those arrested in HK were always tried in HK, and Mainland (as well as the governor) were changing to being tried in the mainland instead of in HK?

Jerry May

Youngest is 40 today but ......

Janalu Jeanes (Parchman)

Does anyone suspect that George Soros is one of the financiers of the anarchists and looters being paid to go to New York City and other cities, to cause destruction and mass mayhem behind the protesters who have marched through the cities?  Does anyone wonder why DeBlasio refuses to call in the National Guard to protect the property from the looters who run about in the darkness in gangs, deliberately luring the police in one direction while they loot in an opposite direction?  And then we have Gov. Cuomo chastizing the New York police for not doing enough to protect the stores and property?   Huh?

And can someone define what a White Supremacist is to me, as it seems that anyone who is 'white" is now considered to be one, yet I don't consider myself one.  

Does anyone on this forum agree that the anarchists want to destroy the US as it currently stands, to remake it in the vision of Soros and other radicals?  Isn't that their aim, ultimately?  The fact that a black man was murdered is not what they are rioting about, but that injustice was simply the spark that allowed them to begin their charade once again, picking up where they left off in earlier rioting instances. 

Another note bandied about in the news yesterday was the former CEO of BET saying that the only way to remedy the scene we have in our cities lately, is to give out 14 trillion dollars in payments to all black citizens, as reparations to them owed by the white citizens.   Does anyone think that is going to happen?

Kurt Fischer

Lowell:

The beginning of the 2019 unrest in Hong Kong was tied to a proposed extradition treaty.  This would have been been with Taiwan, Macau and mainland China.  (All of these are considered by the Chinese as being part of China).

It all started with a Hong Kong man murdering his girlfriend while in Taiwan, then fleeing back to Hong Kong.  Taiwan asked HK to return the man for trial, but HK indicated it had no formal extradition treaty with Taiwan and couldn't do it.  The combined extradition treaty was the proposal to resolve the issue.

People in HK are very wary of being tried for crimes in mainland China.  Over the years there have been numerous instances of individuals "disappearing" in HK and showing up in China.  Not a huge number, but very well publicized and visible.  Invariably, these individuals receive harsh treatment and end up making some form of public confession for their crimes.

Nobody in HK wants to be tried in mainland China and this was the beginning of massive protests.  I believe the first two protests turned out around 1 million and 3 million people each. But then the protests turned violent and the protesters developed their "five demand" mantra.  And that's where we are now.

Sandra Spieker (Ringo)

George Soros Conspiracy Resurfaces Using Old 'Paid Protestor' YouTube Video: 'How Gulible Can You Be?' - Headline from Newsweek.

Hollis Carolyn Heyn

Janalu:  I wouldn't consider you a white supermacist unless you are a member or sympathizer of the KKK and/or any number of other groups that you probably could see listed at the Anti Defamation League's website or the Southern Poverty Law Center's website. You might want to explore Frontline's archive of programs - I know they've conducted top notch research on how these groups have evolved in the last ten, probably five years.  

I think any white person, despite his/her/their background and history, may examine what racist thinking, actions he/she/they have made in the past and recently.  Not so much a question of whether or not you are a racist, but what choices, what organizations, what behaviors support racism, specifically institutional racism. It's a discernment process of wanting to not contribute and perpetuate racism.  So don't worry about feeling accused or defensive or guilty.  Just put yourself in problem solving mode.  I'll post some suggestions from black people about how to begin a little later today.  

Later now:  I tried copying and pasting but couldn't include each post in its entirety.  I'll try again.  Other chores are calling.

Janalu Jeanes (Parchman)

Lance,

My grandmother lived on a tiny farm in Tom Green County, where there was nothing around her.  Her big activity of each week was playing the piano at the tiny church down the road and singing with the choir, what there was of it.  She was bored to tears most of the time.  I doubt that she ever saw a hanging or a KKK member anywhere, although she knew about them, since her family did get newspapers.

My other grandmother knew of the KKK, since she lived in the McKinney TX area.  She also knew about hangings, but I never heard her speak of any that happened in her neighborhood, which was also very rural.  She was very religious and always was kind to everyone, and would prepare meals with black ladies at her church, when there was a family in need, due to illness or bad luck situations.  I'm sure she read about the evilness lurking around TX in that era, from the newspapers and the usual gossip going around, but again, I don't think she witnessed any, because I feel quite sure she would have told me about such an awful thing.  She told me about everthing else!

Will answer your other questions later...........

David Cordell

Lance,

I considered your post to be highly offensive and insulting, so I deleted it. Don't push me.

Hollis Carolyn Heyn

Hollis Carolyn Heyn

Steve Keene

Hollis,

What is the feeling in St. Louis about the three police officers who were shot by an attempted assassin among the peaceful protestors?  You have gone a long way on facebook defending the looters and lawbreakers, even implying that it was white people camouflaged among the blacks that were doing the evil unlawful acts.  I just don't understand that thinking.  Why would a racist white person care to even be involved in the George Floyd controvery?  I guess if social distancing really prevents Covid 19 transmission, then we are going to see the karma fallout in the next 14 days against all those involved.

Lawrence (Lance) Cantor

[I deleted the last two sentences of this post as I deemed them inappropriate. David Cordell]

David Cordell

Lance, 

There are other sites that would welcome your posting of photos of lynchings and insults of another classmate's grandmother.

You may have considered your comment to have been sarcastic. I considered it to be mean, thus unwelcome on this site. Not only that, you repeated the same line of commentary in another post, addressed toward a second classmate. By the way, whether the classmate is actually offended or not, I will decide whether the comment is appropriate for this site.

I grant some slack to some people sometimes, and sometimes I contact individuals privately to urge them to lighten up. You have taken far more than your share of slack. You know that your M.O. is to push boundaries. That doesn't work here.

As for your comment about my alleged hypocrisy, it is only the latest in a long line of your insults and complaints about me and my decisions on this forum, which is yet another reason that you might choose to post elsewhere. You may have noticed that the repeated insults and complaints haven't had much effect. 

Hollis Carolyn Heyn

Hollis Carolyn Heyn

Lawrence (Lance) Cantor

Janalu Jeanes (Parchman)

So Lance,

If your lineage goes back to mid-1800 in Georgia, what was the struggle with morality and race in your family?

I assume, just as you did with my grandmother, that there was some.  Do you wish to talk about it?

Even if there was struggle in those former years, how does that justify what is happening with anarachy and looting today?  If it was wrong in former years to be callous, cruel and evil, does that mean that those who loot today and cause destruction to other's property are justified as a reciprocal action toward people of the past?  (insert one of the Bible's verses here, please)   I have gleaned from the Bible that it is never okay to be cruel or evil, and I assume that you, too, have learned that.  So then, evilness today would not be justified under any circumstance, correct?  If someone slugged you in high school, would you be justified in slugging that person in the same way today, were you to meet up with him somewhere?  Wouldn't you take the higher road and offer you hand for a handshake instead, as a professed Christian?  Hm-m-m-m?

Are we forever cursed because our ancestors engaged in slavery?  Are other countries who have had slavery cursed forever as well?  

I remember that when the Jews were captured and taken to Babylon and enslaved for many years, they were eventually released after Cyrus The Great rode into Persia and disrupted rule.  The Jews returned to Israel and began life again where they left off.  So isn't that the way of the world, more or less, with some hiccups thrown in?

It will take a long time for the scars of slavery to heal, but the healing has already started in some ways.  We know that the Black injustice is a work in progress, and they will continue to have more and more opportunities offered. Nevertheless, don't you think that as time goes on, the Blacks will begin to let "the chips on their shoulders finally heal?"  Isn't it foolish for them to continue to carry a grudge, or cudgel, since that basically only produces frustration and keeps them in a rut?  Don't they also need to make a sincere effort to make use of opportunities and take responsibility to improve, by way of their own efforts?

David Cordell

Lance said: "I'm equally happy to remain in denial of the lynchings in America."

David replies, "Denial? I don't deny that there have been lynchings. Likewise, I don't deny that you sit on the toilet every day, but I don't want to see a photo of either on this website."

That said, read the comments on the top of the Message Forum webpage. Respectful discussions of current events are welcome, including the George Floyd case and the subsequent protests, rioting, looting, arson, and shootings. 

David Cordell

Hollis, marrying a yankee is certainly a major social faux pas. Similarly, my father married my mother, daughter of Italian immigrants, while the U.S. was at war with Italy in Septermber 1942.

Janalu Jeanes (Parchman)

Hollis,

Your ancestors living in Marshall TX., is interesting to hear.  Did their offspring teach you any German?  I enjoyed visiting that little town a while back, with my daughter.  We went there for a 'home tour' I thought would be a fun thing, since I love to go inside of interesting-looking houses of years past.  They DID have quite a few homes opened up that were such a treat to view!  They were all decorated so nicely too, and we thoroughly enjoyed visiting with all the welcoming owners.

Have you seen the different styles of homes there?  I enjoy the cottage style houses and the Victorian ones the most.  My daughter liked them all too, especially the homes with litttle rooms tucked into attic spaces.  Those were her favorites.

The whole town had interesting history and a unique style of its own, to offer.  We saw Karnack too, just briefly, where Lady Bird grew up.  Pretty cypress trees everywhere around the river and swamp.

Great fun!  Interesting place!

Jerry May

Might be 3 years ago......but what a tradition!

Lowell Tuttle

Tuve!

Lawrence (Lance) Cantor

LIVING RIGHT IN A WRONG WORLD

Janalu....here are a few responses to your questions...

So Lance,

If your lineage goes back to mid-1800 in Georgia, what was the struggle with morality and race in your family?   I assume, just as you did with my grandmother, that there was some.  Do you wish to talk about it?

               Morality and race in our ancestry were never mentioned to me while growing up, thus I don’t know of any.   However the Family Story that WAS told to me was about Walter Williamson Sr. who fought for the Confederacy.   He survived the war, and like all soldiers who followed the terms of surrender, was allowed to return home afterward.   Unfortunately he made it back to within 20 miles of home during the winter…but froze to death. 

Nonetheless, you can bet He would have had many stories to tell about the justification of slavery and its morality.

Even if there was struggle in those former years, how does that justify what is happening with anarachy and looting today?  If it was wrong in former years to be callous, cruel and evil, does that mean that those who loot today and cause destruction to other's property are justified as a reciprocal action toward people of the past? 

               The struggle for justice today is made unduly complex.  Given the multiple groups involved, their aims and skewed perspectives have become unclear and muddled, and made worse by their lack of stated purposeful goals which often run counter to the values we cherish as a nation.

(insert one of the Bible's verses here, please) 

                              Of course Bible verses have been, and often are used and perverted to justify many immoral acts.  These come to mind:

               “Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth”.

 I have gleaned from the Bible that it is never okay to be cruel or evil, and I assume that you, too, have learned that.  So then, evilness today would not be justified under any circumstance, correct? 

                                             Also…The saying, "the end justifies the means", meaning that if a goal is considered morally important enough,

any method of achieving it is  acceptable.

If someone slugged you in high school, would you be justified in slugging that person in the same way today, were you to meet up with him somewhere? 

                              Damn right I would…except if he were a lot bigger than me. 

Even then, I’d find a way to get even!

Wouldn't you take the higher road and offer you hand for a handshake instead, as a professed Christian?  Hm-m-m-m?

                              No way. There were no students who modeled Jesus Christ at RHS that were noteworthy as I recall….only arrogant self-centered elitists who worked or bought clothes from the Kent Shop…and worshipped Cole Haan shoes and Cassini designer shirts!

Are we forever cursed because our ancestors engaged in slavery? 

Yes cursed by sin.   But no, we are free to forgive…although unlikely due to pride.…kinda like David and Tommy.

But like a good Rebel, never forget ole Dixie, The South Will Rise Again!

Are other countries who have had slavery cursed forever as well?  

               No, They can grow to practice forgiveness as well.   Example being Nelson Mandela in South Africa concerning apartheid.

I remember that when the Jews were captured and taken to Babylon and enslaved for many years, they were eventually released after Cyrus The Great rode into Persia and disrupted rule.  The Jews returned to Israel and began life again where they left off.  So isn't that the way of the world, more or less, with some hiccups thrown in?

Not sure I follow your example and analogy.

The Book of Daniel mentions that the exile lasted 70 years. The disobedience of the Jews is why they were allowed to be conquered and exiled to Babylon.   After 70 years, they returned to Israel.   But as you know even after exile, they soon lapsed back into disobedience.

In that regard…we are indeed the same disobedient people in this world…with some hiccups thrown in!

It will take a long time for the scars of slavery to heal, but the healing has already started in some ways.  We know that the Black injustice is a work in progress, and they will continue to have more and more opportunities offered. Nevertheless, don't you think that as time goes on, the Blacks will begin to let "the chips on their shoulders finally heal?" 

Isn't it foolish for them to continue to carry a grudge, or cudgel, since that basically only produces frustration and keeps them in a rut? 

               The issue is not blacks carrying a grudge….it’s whites carrying generational bigotry….that keeps the country in a rut of generational unforgiveness.

Don't they also need to make a sincere effort to make use of opportunities and take responsibility to improve, by way of their own efforts?

               Given the racist elements in our American white culture, I truly don’t believe this country wants blacks to succeed.  Minorities must remain minorities is the mantra of the “ruling class”. 

Our hypocrisy…Sad truth!

David Cordell

Well, damn! I spent about two hours writing a publication-worthy essay about the whole George Floyd situation, and then it disappeared, which is probably God's way of saying, "Keep that one to yourself." You'll just have to take my word for it. It was great! Next time I set out to write a long tome, I'm going to write it in Word.

Lawrence (Lance) Cantor